Hand histories are a violation of many TOS

[Zorfox]

I have been using PokerTracker for a few months. Recently I purchased hand histories believing that it would be an advantageous addition to my arsenal. I imported them without warnings and utilized them. Honestly I did not find them to be of much advantage. It has come to my attention that this simple act is a violation of Pokerstars' terms or Service agreement, see below.

I am posting this to warn others that datamined histories such as this are forbidden on most sites and to beware. I would suggest the authors of Pokertracker software alert users such as myself to this during importation. If I had a six figure bankroll and did this it would have been an expensive mistake. As it is I am waiting to hear from Pokerstars to find out how expensive of a mistake I have made by being honest and admitting to it during a question to them asking if this was appropriate. I have since found out it is not.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/tos/ ….

“5.5. EXTERNAL PLAYER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS (EPA). PokerStars prohibits those External Player Assistance Programs ("EPA Programs") which are designed to provide an "Unfair Advantage" to players. PokerStars defines "External" to mean computer software (other than the Software), and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g. web sites and subscription services). PokerStars defines an "Unfair Advantage" as any instance in which a User accesses or compiles information on other players beyond that which the User has personally observed through the User's own game play. We encourage you to read our Prohibited Online Software FAQ. “

[WhiteRider]

Just to clarify - PokerTracker 3 does not break any sites' terms. PokerTracker 3 is fully allowed at all sites that we support.
Using PT3 while you play will NOT put your bankroll at risk.

We are not able to tell where the hand history files come from and can't police the purchasing or sharing of hand history files, which is what breaks the sites' terms.

[JimmyM69]

Let me get this right, please.
Is it the case that the only way a site can know that a player has bought HHs, in defiance of its TOS, is if the player admits it to them?
Do the HH sellers tell the sites, "Oh yeah, we sold <insert number of HHs> to <insert name of player>? Hardly, as the relationship between the buyer's email or IP address and his screen name on the site appears difficult to discern.
Can the site client "look into" the players PC to see what apps are running along with the client?
Inquiring minds wish to know, please

[zubs1aa]

Let me get this right, please.
Is it the case that the only way a site can know that a player has bought HHs, in defiance of its TOS, is if the player admits it to them?
Do the HH sellers tell the sites, "Oh yeah, we sold <insert number of HHs> to <insert name of player>? Hardly, as the relationship between the buyer's email or IP address and his screen name on the site appears difficult to discern.
Can the site client "look into" the players PC to see what apps are running along with the client?
Inquiring minds wish to know, please

Many if not all the sites put in there TOS that they have the right to monitor your machine for use of external assistance programs... I know stars has caught people using prohibited software by monitoring their machine.

WIth those HH that people buy, there is no way for a poker site to know you did that unless you or someone else tells them you did so. If they had some electronic way of figuring it out then sites like poker table rating s would be out of business by now. Also, there is no way the people selling the HH would ever tell the sites who they sold them to, since the sites would like to see the HH resellers shut down and try to make it hard for them to gather the data in the first place.

Basically I think you are pond scum if you buy them as a potential competitive advantage for yourself. But, if you need that much of a helper to win, then at least for your own benefit keep your mouth shut about it in public forums - or to people you know that might get a kick out of turning you in. That is how people get caught and get their accounts locked up if not seized.

*Angry rant about pond scum is from me, another random user. I'm not a pokertracker person.

**And to OP, it's up to everyone to know the TOS at the sites they play on. It's not the pokertracker guys responsibility to worry about you doing something dumb with the product. That's like telling the guy in the gun store that he should remind buyers that using a gun to commit a crime could land your ass in jail if you get caught.

[Zorfox]

Your right that is it not the responsibility of the authors to warn people. It is my responsibility to understand and know the TOS. Is it remotely possible some people don't know HH are forbidden? I can't be the only one. Before I used PokerTracker I inquired to make sure this type of software was "legal". It is perfecly acceptable as stated in , http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/ , line 59, under acceptable tools and services. The internet is loaded with sites to download HH and every one I have seen advertise that they are compatible with PokerTracker, which as stated is acceptable. I was under the false impression since I was using them with an approved application it was permissible.

I posted this to warn others it is NOT appropriate. I made the suggestion of a warning. If PT can be used for purposes that are forbidden then I think it should alert the user you may be violating the TOS at your poker room by utilizing this software to do XYZ. It takes less than 5 minutes of programming to add a dialog box to do that. It seems to be a win win for the Pokertracker team and the poker sites. A simple dialog box warning people would eliminate any ill feelings one may have towards the application and the poker sites would be assured the developers are helping to make online poker honest. Sites would be more apt to approve the software if little changes such as that were made.

In no way did I mean to imply pokertracker is "illegal". IT IS NOT! It is a fantastic application that I don't regret purchasing in the least. My hat off to the developers! Sorry if my original post even remotely implied that.

BTW I don't think the gun salesman analogy is the same. There are many laws people simply are not aware of and education is an integral part of public service. I just wanted to put a drop into the education bucket here for whatever it was worth.

[zubs1aa]

Zor-

On second thought you have a point. Apologies for being a bit scathing before.

SNG wizard is sw to analyze SNG play. It knows that it can't be open while any poker clients are playing. It is however considered a legit tool to use when NOT playing.

So to protect people from themselves (and to make sure their SW isn't abused) if it opens and you have a poker client open it tells you it cant be open and actually shuts itself down.

So while it's not PT's responsibility here to put up a warning - I suppose a one liner on the manual import screen wouldn't be the worst thing in the world either.