Does PT3 and HEM calculate EV the same way?

[Goodfella]

Ok, I know this might sound like a stupid question, but this is my situation.

I use both PT3 and HEM, today I played a session using PT3 on my mac, when the session was done I took a look at my EV graph and it seemed a little off. Out of curiosity I exported my hands from that session and imported them into Holdem Manager. The $ results came out the same, but the EV graph was completely different. And I mean a huge difference, like over 1k. So I'm completely baffled how this could be, I figured both programs calculated EV the exact same way.

Any help with this would be appreciated.

[kraada]

I don't know how they calculate things, but I do know what we do.

The EV graph shows all non-showdown hands with their results as played. It also shows all hands that reached the river with money left to bet with their results as played. In both cases, all-in luck did not play a role. For all hands that were all-in preflop, on the flop, or the turn, instead of seeing your actual results graphed you see your expected results at the time of the all-in.

[bagge]

I created a thread about this some time ago as I too noticed just too big deviations, I'll see if I can dig it up for you. I dont remember the specifics of what was concluded, but I take the numbers of the PT3 graph with a big grain of salt. The allin EV difference between the two are just way too far off to be explained by a few missing hands or a minor miscalculation.

There is an addon to PT3 called holdemluck, which can be found in a stickied thread at the top of this forum, it shows the same, or close to the same numbers as HEM.

edit; viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28421

[WhiteRider]

There was a discussion amongst the development team about the differences a little while ago - I don't know the details but they were pretty confident that the method PT3 uses gives a more accurate EV.
You can add the new "EV ..." stats to reports showing individual hands and if you find any which you don't agree with please attach the hand history to a Support ticket and we'll certainly check them out.

[bagge]

Is there any way you could find out the specifics as to why PT3's calcs would be more accurate? What kraada said a couple of posts ago is the answer I've been getting as well, that you dont know exactly how HEM calculates their stats. To me, it seems like they are both supposed to output the same results in the EV graphs, there is the ammount won which includes the actual results and there is the expected winnings which includes the actual results for hands that didnt go to showdown, hands that went to showdown without being all in before river, and adjusted results for hands that were all in before river (where luck plays a roll). If thats the case, one, or both, has to be making miscalculations somewhere. If your dev team made a comparison and came to the conclusion that PT3 should be more accurate, I think the details of that could be helpful in this thread.

I'm not sure if a report like this would include all hands where luck played a roll, I questioned whether this would include hands where I called allins as well but kraada told me the following would include hands both where I raised all in and where I called all in; preflop raise all-in OR flop raise all-in OR turn raise all-in AND played this month. I ran it using Ammount won, EV allin expected and hand #.
Running this report PT3 displays 49 hands whereas HEM finds 79 hands using the filter all-in on turn(or earlier). Holdemluck shows 84 allins with a few more hands in total, but I believe holdemluck disregard me having my day set to start at 7am in PT3 and I played a shorter session during the night when we went into june and holdemluck doesnt take this into account. Taking that session into account HEM has 81 all in hands, which isnt equal but still fairly close. This is a bad period for me to use for this comparison as I've been running fairly close to EV, its a short period of time, and the sample size aint that big. The graphs of both HEM and PT3 are as a result of that very close but in the past there has been differences. There are however some differences using the PT3 report above but I'm assuming that report is missing something, whether its the fact that called all ins arent included as I was told, or something completely different I'm missing I havent really bothered looking into. I dont use these graphs all that much other than to take a quick glimse at occasionally to get a grip of how I'm running overall, so its not that big of a deal to me, I just cant shake of the feeling that everything isnt right with PT3's EV graph.

I also just now see a hand in this PT3 report where the ammount won is nagative, and equal to the net expected won $. In short, this was a hand where I after raising pfr got 3bet preflop and ended up 4beting all in with my AK vs his AA. According to PT3's calculations my equity here would be 0% which surely isnt the case.

[WhiteRider]

I'll see if I can get a more detailed answer for you, but if you have any hands which don't seem right please attach the hand history file to a Support ticket and tell us the hand number so that we can investigate.